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紐西蘭總理 Jacinda Ardern 今年6月產女,是世界上第二位在任內生產的總理。產假結束回到總理職位的她,欲以行動證明女人可以同時是一位好母親與國家領袖。面對外界對她的質疑,她說:「我不是超人,但我會在每件事上全力以赴。」

 

Before you start

Jacinda Ardern
傑辛達・阿爾登
1980年7月26日

 

WHO

Jacinda 2017年10月就任紐西蘭總理,是紐西蘭自1856年來最年輕的總理,政治生涯發展快速的她,20多歲時就擔任過英國前首相布萊爾 (Tony Blair) 的政策顧問。一如所屬工黨的風格,她致力於推動福利政策,保障弱勢族群的生存所需。

 

WHAT

Jacinda 和伴侶Clarke Gayford 產下女兒Neve,有趣的是這對伴侶並未結婚。對此,Jacinda表示,他們從來沒有刻意「不結婚」,只是一直沒有去安排結婚這件事,但也因為彼此都非常忠誠,倒也沒人對此有太多意見。

 

HIGHLIGHTS

記者問Jacinda是否認為外界太過關注她生產的消息會侵犯到她的隱私,她說他一點也不介意。因為身為史上第二位在執政期間懷孕生產的母親,引起大家的興趣是很正常的。但他希望未來有一天,這件事將不再那麼稀奇,而能廣為大眾接受。

 

“We’ve been multitasking every single day. The sentiment in that piece suggests that women can only be mother or other. Can I be a Prime Minister and a mother? Absolutely. Will I have the help to do it? Yes.”

「我們每天都同時處理大量不同的事,這種言論卻假定女人只能在當母親和做其他事間選一個。我可以同時當總理,又是一位母親嗎?當然。我身邊會有人幫助我嗎?會的。」

—Jacinda 回應質疑她總理任期內懷孕生產的言論

 

總理「人夫」怎麼當?

Jacinda 的伴侶Clarke Gayford 是一名捕魚外景節目主持人,女兒出生後由他在家當「奶爸」。對於身為總理的伴侶,Clarke非常泰然自若。他坦言自己常常向Jacinda發表政治意見,甚至有時批評她的作為。採訪他們的NBC記者形容他們非常平易近人,Clarke則誠懇地反問:「我們應該要表現得怎麼樣呢?」。

 

 

訪談節錄

節錄自紐西蘭國家廣播電台RNZ 2018年訪談

 

Q: Helen Clark in that lovely thing she wrote in The Guardian said, “No doors are closed on women”. This is the message, from you. But the multitude of doors that are open, the responsibilities that you have, are still a balancing act, aren't they?
紐西蘭前總理Helen Clark在英國衛報上發表的文章對你有高度評價,她認為你告訴了大眾 「沒有女人解決不了的事」 。但當每件事都需要你去解決時,平衡也是一件很困難的事吧?

 

Yeah, and there is guilt behind every door… I do not have the monopoly on guilt, I think. I think women in all different walks of life will feel, to some degree, that if they place more emphasis on this area, their sacrificing something else over here. Gosh if I could take it away, if I could gift all women the absence of guilt, I would. But that’s the reality we still have. And that’s probably still part of the progress we need to make, that we can make choices, and just feel satisfied with doing the best we can, both in the workplace but also with our families.

是的,每一個選擇背後都會伴隨著罪惡感。我想不是只有我會有這種罪惡感,我相信每個女人在某方面來說都會有類似的感覺,就是當選擇在一件事上付出更多時,另一邊就會相對被犧牲。如果我能,我一定毫不猶豫地讓女性們都能去除這種罪惡感。但目前現實就是如此,這是我們需要努力的事之一,也就是試著當作出選擇後,能為自己的全心付出感到滿足,無論在工作或家庭上。

 

Q: That’s a very powerful message of what you’re doing. Isn’t it?
妳傳達出了振奮人心的訊息呢,不是嗎?

 

I’m not going to pretend that I’m superhuman. And I’m not going to pretend that I have the same luck as every other woman. I’m privileged. I’m very, very lucky. I have a partner who can be there alongside me, who’s taking up a huge part of joint responsibility, because he is a parent, too. He’s not a babysitter. He’s a parent as well. And at the same time, I also have the ability to have her with me, some of the time. So that means that I’m privileged. I’m lucky. A lot of women don’t have that choices. So, acknowledge that.

我並不是要假裝自己像個超人一樣什麼都能做,也不是要假設自己和所有女性都站在同樣的起點。其實我很幸運,我真的很幸運,我的伴侶全力參與其中,分擔了很大一部分的事。而且他扮演的角色是一位家長,而不是保姆。同時,我平常也有很多機會可以把女兒帶在身邊。因此我真的非常幸運,有許多的女性並沒有這樣的選項。

 

 

Q: What is the world you want to build for Neve? What is the New Zealand you want her to grow up in?
妳希望為女兒建立一個怎麼樣的世界?妳希望她成長在一個什麼樣的紐西蘭?

 

 

Actually, I want to make sure that we govern in a way that reflects who, I think, we already see ourselves as being as a nation. If you ask a New Zealander to describe the country that they live in, and they belong to. And they will probably make some mention of how important the environment is to them. How beautiful it is. And probably underneath it, lies their sense of the guardianship role that we have. They would probably talk about us being fair minded”. I know that means different things to different people but there’s an inherent sense of I think social justice in New Zealand. And I think this inherent compassion to us as well…

事實上,我希望我們可以打造一個反映紐西蘭人特質的國家。當你請一位紐西蘭人描述自己的國家、自己的歸屬時,他們可能會提到環境對我們來說有多麽重要,紐西蘭是多麽的美,我認為紐西蘭的人們有著一種「守護者」的精神。他們也可能會覺得自己很在乎公平,雖然每個人對公平的定義都不一樣,但我也相信紐西蘭社會中,原本就存在著社會正義的因子,以及內化的同理心。

 

 

Q: As a Labour Prime Minister, how do you reconcile the forces that want you to be less Labour, and the forces that demand you to behave more like Labour?
身為一位工黨籍的總理,你認為該怎麼平衡工黨支持者、和非工黨支持者對你的期待呢?

 

I think in both of those scenarios, when you look at the business confidence, and when you look at the people who are seeking to have long-running labor issues resolved, there are high expectations of us, because we are problem solvers. You know, we’re called progressives for a reason. We progress change. We’re not afraid to tackle the problems in front of us.

我想無論是關注商業信心指數、或是關注長期勞工議題的人,兩方都對我們有非常高的期待,因為我們是可以解決問題的人。我們被稱為進步主義者不是沒有理由的,因為我們一直在推動改革,我們勇於處理眼前的這些問題。

 

…Any government that says we’re going to modernize means there’s a little bit of uncertainty because with change, comes uncertainty. What I’m committed to is coming out and really fronting with the business community and saying “We’re responding to the challenge you’ve thrown at us. We have to do it together. I get that I need to instill that confidence in you, but I’m going to do that.”

…任何一個要推動現代化的政府都要面對許多未知數,因為改變一定會帶來未知。我現在努力要做的就是站出來面對產業人士,告訴他們:「我們正在回應你們拋出的問題,但我們要合作;我知道我必須讓你們對經濟有信心,但改革還是要做。」

 

…No one has a monopoly on running the economy in a sustainable, responsible way. That has always been a part of Labour’s agenda and it’s part now of this government’s agenda because actually we can’t achieve all of the things we want to in the social space unless we have an economy that’s performing well.

…發展永續、且具責任感的經濟模式並不是少數人的事。工黨一直努力推動這件事,但現在我們和其他政黨一起執政,它也成為整個政府的政策之一。因為若想要達成社會議題上的改革目標,我們也必須先讓我們的經濟運作得當。

 

 


 

 

本文收錄於英語島English Island 2018年10月號
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